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I just received a very interesting email from LL Bean about 3rd party opt out requests. It details that LL Bean will now only accept Opt Outs from approved 3rd party services. I expected to find the DMA but I was shocked to find the catalogchoice.org was the other approved service and goes on to say that we should be referring our members to these 2 services!!! It doesn’t sound very “non-profit” of catalogchoice.org to forge a relationship with LL Bean and at the same time shut out all the other services that send opt outs to LL Bean such as stopthejunkmail.com, greendimes.com and proquo.com.
Does the “Just say No” policy from the DMA exclude cataogchoice.org from this policy or has cc.org worked really hard because they have so many opt outs and can’t send them any other way except by file transfer there by tainting the relationships companies like stopthejunkmail.com have had with companies like LL Bean for 7 years.
Margot Brown co-owner stopthejunkmail.com
Margot:
Catalogchoice.org has not done anything to preclude a merchant from honoring requests from any other 3rd party services. We have been working diligently on behalf of consumers and merchants to provide a free service.
It is incorrect to imply that CatalogChoice.org has “shut out all the other services.”
Chuck,
We too are working diligently to help our members opt out of junk mail and it is upsetting when a major cataloger such as LL Bean shuts the door on consumers after 7 years of accepting opt outs without a single complaint but opens it for a competitor such as cc.org.
Margot
Margot,
This is just another example illustrating that the “system” is flawed. We could all use a set of rules and guidelines that everyone and anyone can play by.
“You don’t pay to get on a list, so why should you pay $20.00 or something to get off of the list?” – Chuck Teller. Margot, read the interview Cataloging Is Not Dead. I would suppose LL Bean, too, has decided consumers should not have to pay opt out.
Hi, did any of you read my blogs on “looking back”? I’ve been telephoning catalog companies asking for the supplier of my mail info since late September 2007. They often say no they don’t know. Been writing to catalog companies since late December 2007. Joined catalog choice in late January 2008 but just today I have about 12 catalogs with 30 names being “Delivered” (whatever that is) I think it’s a good sign!
There are several suppliers of our mailing info but if the catalog company has a “Mail Preference” clause or they “sometimes they exchange” your mailing info – Houston, we have a problem because it’s probably being done before you had a chance to opt out.
I am now asking catalogchoice if they can help us green consumers out.
If catalogs do not honor what they print, my decision to going State Attorney General Office (SAG) with my complaint is because it’s gone the course with the sharing of multiple variations of my name to two addresses to try to get off the major parent companies that have several catalogs. I’ts become a revolving door for me and my husband.
Does anyone know if there are any laws for these mail suppliers and catalog companies to abide by?
To say No means no and equals opt out means opt out. Don’t pay to help mailing suppliers or catalog companies to get off their lists. In other words, they need to clean up their mess by improving their opt out policies to exclude they share/rent/sell mailing info and, honor the words they print. I’m just a consumer that feels information on mailing info should not be allowed to be exchanged as much as it is – Without one knowing how much it is.
Thanks Debra, I have read the interview that Chuck did with Alan. Alan asked some very interesting questions. Some for profit businesses need to charge a service fee because we are not backed by vc’s or foundations like the Overbrook foundation. We have offered our service at a cost so we can afford to support members who wish to help the environment and protect their privacy.
I fe;; I have become the victim of a catalog ’shell game’. I successfully declined from Land’s End under my own name, only to start receiving their catalogs in a weird hybridized version of my husband’s & my names. NOT FAIR. The cancellation should work off of address/household, not name.
Susan, Bless you! If you have read the other archival blogs some of us have been going though that journey. Catalog suppliers and catalog companies really should honor their Mail Peference Policies but by address. If there are guidances set by them in print, why should we be CHARGED A FEE by third party companies to do what the suppliers of mail listings and the catalog companies are required to do.My vote is to give catalogchoice and those brave enough to go to the state government levels and complain a chance.
I’ve been doing some reading about direct mail and ran across an article about Senator Susan Collins. On April 1, she addressed the National Association of Postal Supervisors and had this to say, “Direct mail is in no way comparable to the unsolicited and invasive telephone calls that are curbed by the Do Not Call registry. Direct mail imposes no burden on the public, it causes no interruptions, and I, for one, look forward to the Bed, Bath & Beyond coupons I get in the mail. A Do Not Mail registry would attempt to solve a problem that does not exist.” I found the full text of her speech on her website.
I’m shaking my head in disbelief. Imposes no burden? Causes no interruptions? Who has she been talking with? Certainly not with any of us who receive volumes of unsolicited catalogs and other mailings every day. Opposing a Do Not Mail registry is one thing… basing it on entirely fallacious opinion is another.
This process of attempting to cancel catalogs seems to be endless. Someone out there is selling my name and address, so I cancel two and two more come in the mail from other outlets. It’s not that I don’t like looking at them, but getting rid of them is a pain, literally, when hubby carries out the recycling bin.
The phrase “Whack-a-Mole” comes to mind.
There’s a merchant on the Bravo page who hasn’t yet honored my requests. I submitted the original opt-out last year and the latest report two months ago (I’ve received at least two other catalogs in the meantime). The merchant is mailing to my maiden name, which I haven’t used since 1995. I’m assuming that was excavated from a house list, since I was a customer in the early 90s.
I haven’t written to that merchant yet because I’m curious to see if the old name starts circulating around again. I hope no one’s foolish enough to buy data that archaic. But I’m just sitting here waiting for it to happen, and I will know the source if/when it does. There’s been only one other company using that name within the past five years, and they definitely appear to be honoring my opt-out request.
Mary and Tracy, (Nancy) said it right, it’s a shell game. But Mary, I did some reading on Senator Collin’s little thing so I sat down and wrote her and my congressman. She forgot the consumer’s point of view and maybe to do her homework. I also pointed out that deletion should be by address and not by name. Why should we have to join these companies to pay for getting off unwanted/unsolicited mailings just because USPS endorses it. Maybe I’ll be heard but atleast I can rest that I said something.
Tracy, I get stuff in my old married name, 10 variations of my new name, 8 different variations of my husband’s name, my deceased inlaws in their variations to two addresses and DMA wants a buck for every five names for each address that the helped create my nightmare. Might be because I’m older than you. I’m working on my letters with docs to send to the SAGs that send me the mother load of catalogs and junk mailings because they are failing to comply with their mailing preference policies.
I’ve been watching the numbers of members and catalog opt out going up quickly on catalog.choice and I think that’s lovely! GO!
The word according to my husband: “Basically, a negative response from the consumer should not be regarded as an affirmative response.”
The frustration of still receiving the majority of catalogs from I’ve opted out continues. I began this process on November 9, 2007, and continue to receive old and at least two new catalogs a week.
Although I applaud CatalogChoice, I do not see the fruits of their labor and mine. I have decided to call and e-mail the vendors directly. Something that I hoped to avoid by opting out through CatalogChoice.
It is a tedious process to check, double check, and sometimes triple check for name variations and changing customer numbers on received catalogs.
I have received two catalogs reported thru this website to cancel >3 months ago with NEW CUSTOMER numbers. The first, I thought ‘cute’ and re-entered the new no. Now I have to wait 3 more months to try to get rid of a catalog (Hammacher Schelemmer) that I have no recollection of ever ordering from. The SECOND, I reported the infraction rather than enter the new account number that was assigned to me.
Nice strategy, relentless marketing types! These are both catalogs I would either never order from or ones that I like and know about and will order on-line.
Keep up the fight.
Suzanne
I joined and added catalogs the day catalog choice was aired on the Today Show in January. I continue to enter catalogs as they come. Since I began this I have received so many more catalogs than ever before and so many new ones. What’s wrong?
I’m sorry Susan, you mentioned the “nut shell game”. I really feel the same way and it’s like you said it is a nut shell game.
Bonnie, I’ve been saving the mailing labels off catalogs since September 2007. Also look at the name variations and who’s pays the postage, i.e. HSN, the name of the catalog..etc. (the box in the top right hand corner) Also, look at the center part of the catalogs and save their “Mail Preference” policy – in small print. Go into Google and look for the parent company and sometimes it’s very blatant, sometimes it takes awhile to find the core and the sister companies they “share” to. It opens up a vast ocean of mail suppliers and total access to our lives, a consumer’s nightmare and damage.
Call the friendly customer service representatives (it’s not their fault) that confidently say it takes 1-2 mailings because they are preprinted in advance. Followup calls after that are very apologetic and say it wasn’t done right the first time. Better yet, you’re really off their listing. Yup, September 2007 through present results with the same script for me. An Hour to three per day, 5 days a week. Been there, got the T shirt and that T shirt has a bigger hole and it’s not just because I’m losing weight!
My question, why do companies want to continue to send out mailings that consumers request they do not want? If this is to help keep their cost of postage for the consumers down and help direct mailings, I do not understand the economics. If one does not want their products what’s the purpose?
By the way, If you write to anyone, do it in green ink this month – It’s help the environment month! Time to get off Soapbox # what?
Catalogchoice numbers and members keep going up!
Thanks for all the informative feedback. Sorry to find so many others in the same boat. My most recent experience in a high-end department store makes me worry over the future of any form of privacy/determining who has what info on us. I paid cash for an item and the saleswoman DEMANDED my name, phone number, etc. I kept reminding her that this was a cash & go transaction (normally anonymous), but she just kept at me with the questions. I’ll let you guess how the transaction ended.
Returning to the original comment on this thread, I was sorry to learn that LL Bean no longer wishes to work with other opt-out services. I like the overall looks of StopTheJunkMail.com. It seems like a fine option, and it’d be the service I’d most likely use if I wasn’t already enrolled at Catalog Choice, the DMA, and OptOutPrescreen.
I have to say that LL Bean has been one of the more courteous merchants from a consumers’ perspective, though. We just received a nice letter from LL Bean’s SVP of Corporate Marketing (a form letter, but still nice) acknowledging my husband’s mailing preferences. That friendly response was generated by a Catalog Choice opt-out request alone, with no additional prodding.
Meanwhile, nearly half of the merchants I’ve tried to contact by e-mail or snail mail haven’t even bothered to respond. I have no idea if they intend to honor my opt-out requests or not.
Ok, I’ll confess. I used to order from catalogs big time up til Sept 07. I did not have the time to shop. Life changed. As I’ve said before in my previous blogs my journey to get off catalogs is just that.
Today, I’m at 79 confirmed, 504 requested opt outs and still 19 refused (cross my fingers, they have not sent me any in a few months). The remainder are still delivered – good sign. For less than 4 months with catalogchoice, I think that’s great.
But…I still feel it’s the consumer’s responsibility to do whatever they have to do but you have to decide. Paying for opt outs is not my bag because I feel it’s defeating my purpose to stop unwanted mail and saying it’s ok to print mail pref policy and ignore it. Catalog companies have to be forced to honor direct opt out requests. Why continue to send their catalogs to consumers that do not want them? Also, I may have been green, (naive) before, but my husband and I no longer like paper waste and the expense involved to create it. So, I guess I’m still green.
My goal to get catalog companies to honor their mail preference policy and actually suppress address vs name and if requested permanently it should be the consumer’s choice. And catalog companies need to stop the “we occasionally exchange your info” and printing “or current resident”. This needs to go! (it’s a possible ID theft indicator) By the time one really reads this, it’s already been done because they preprint in advance. If you move and don’t put in a forwarding address request in a timely manner guess what? Think about those military families that have to move at short notice??? Laws do need to be updated.
I’ll still write and express my requests to catalogs because I think of the ones that cannot do that. I know quite of few of them. The catalog companies need to be responsible to tell the supplier of your wishes to have your info suppressed – not the consumer especially if the catalog is uninvited.
I really miss some of those catalogs but, until we can choose precisely what one wants I’ve opted out of 99% catalogs.
By the way, hate to add a bubble burst, July is around the corner, that means advance preprinting of Holiday catalogs is probably on the way. Are they making their lists and duplicating it twice??? Please really think about what I’ve said.
I can’t tell you exactly how many catalogs I’ve received this month for two addresses yet. That’s another story.
From today’s article in the Mercury News:
“Yes, I’m saying a (Catalog Choice) user may get one or two catalogs from a participating Catalog Choice merchant. I know, I was shocked to hear this, too, but it is standard practice in the industry. Mailers live by the numbers. If you say you want off the list but you recently purchased from a catalog, a mailer may want to test your response to see if you really meant what you said. I was at a recent catalog conference and a list broker (the folks who sell you the names in the first place) said that a mailer would be crazy to remove you from a list if you were a customer without first testing the results (mail you a catalog), especially with the request coming from a third party.” —April Smith, project manager
Well, that’s fine. But I hope everyone understands that turnabout is fair play. I am now personally running all sorts of tests on merchants, to see discover their responses, and whether they really mean what they say. And I am documenting the results, as I’ve mentioned here before.
I don’t like being nasty, but I will get as nasty as I have to be. I’m angry that I continue to receive catalogs that I’ve repeatedly said I don’t want. Depending on what happens in autumn 2008, I will likely be visiting with my Senators and Representative. I don’t favor Do Not Mail legislation, but I do favor stricter privacy standards.
I have begun researching my options. Direct marketers would be smart to research theirs.
Just checking back in to say that NOTHING seems to work. After seeing that catalogchoice.org wasn’t working, I took it upon myself to contact individual companies. Every one said something like “sorry to see you go but of course we will honor your request.” They did say that since they prepare the catalogs weeks in advance of the mailings, I might get 2-3 more. Others told me that I wasn’t even on their lists, which may actually be true. They may be renting lists without adding people to their own lists unless they buy something. I have no idea how to get off these third-party rental lists. Meanwhile, I continue to get catalogs from every single company I listed on catalogchoice.org, even those who confirmed. I am convinced that nothing will work.
Ellen, You just got the T-shirt too and it’s got the same big old hole as everyone else’s that’s been there.
So far this month the count is 15 catalogs which includes 3 that I had not received since I first called them in October. They have been sent my “any future mailings will result in a complaint to your SAG for either not complying with your MPS clause or not honoring my request as a consumer”. ( Feel free to use this phrase.) Maybe they’ll figure that hearing the same thing needs some serious consideration. Be tough but not mean.
I’ve said in the past that deletion should be by address and not name and now that is mentioned in writing to catalog companies. I’m also stating that they need to be responsible for establishing a suppression system where just because the mail suppliers keeps supplying one’s name, the catalog needs to cross run the new list with the suppression list thus blocking new catalogs from going out. My research tells me that there are too many mailings suppliers out there for even third party opt outs that charge $ to keep up with and many are very very big. I will stay with catalogchoice (I agree with not wasting paper and saving the environment) and ride it out telling the catalog companies to contact the supplier of my mailing info to stop sharing, selling or renting my info since that’s the catalogs big secret to consumers. They don’t want to tell you their source so let them notify the supplier. I think this is fair don’t you?
Catalogchoice and their blog have been good for me to see that I am not alone in my nightmare but they have a way to go. But as a consumer that hates to see printed policies not honored or be lied to that it takes 1-2 mailings and you are permanently deleted, I have to do what I have to do and I do what I’ve said:
#1. I’ve called catalog companies.
#2. I’ve written catalog companies indicating
“Do not share, rent or sell my mailing info.
#3. Joined catalogchoice.
#4. Written “future mailings will result in a complaint to your state attorney general’s (SAG) office for not honoring your MPS policy or my request as a consumer for permanent deletion of addresses.
(Done this once.)
#5. Congressional! (both this and SAG are very serious steps) My letter concerning Senator Collin’s Direct Mailing support or my congessman’s letter has not been mailed because I’m still researching links to mail suppliers.
PS: Did anyone understand my last blog about catalog companies gearing up for the holiday season? I remember starting to get seasonal catalogs in September/October 2007. I’m watching this very carefully since I started saving the catalog labels in late September. I now need a better filing system for my evergrowing letters – 390.
PS II: Has anyone started sending magazine subcriptions, insurance and credit card offers, etc. requests for deletions off mailings? Bingo, I have and if they provide the postage paid envelope, that’s even better.
Catalog companies and USPS must have some very big warehouses to store all these catalogs that are preprinted in advance.
On a happier note, I received a grand total of three catalogs during this past week. I’m down to a rate of just one every other day. Most of “unconfirmeds” who sent catalogs during the holiday season have ceased mailing to our house this spring. I’m not yet sure whether that’s due primarily to the change of seasons, the general economic downturn, or a quiet and unofficial honoring of my requests. It will be clearer by this time next year what exactly has happened.
Meanwhile, it’s become very obvious who’s *not* honoring my requests, because those catalogers are no longer obscured by a crowd. That’s extremely useful information–it shows me where I need to focus my efforts.
Why would anyone post spam comments here? I love this service… i think the youth of today need to move things to a world where the only paper is made by hand and painted on by artists….
Love this concept…hope it works. I’d love to rally a boycott of Victoria’s Secret. It’s not only that they don’t take you off their list it’s that they send each customer at least two copies of every catalogue and they come out with at least 4 a week! It’s ridiculous!! Seriously, someone needs to take them on…
I have got to say “Hats off to you all. What a wonderful site you have, and I must also say “Thank You!” I had over 42 catalogs that I get constantly and now I can actually turn OFF the delivery of these same catalogs, therefore if I should want to shop with these people, I can do so online. THANKS! I am going to give this info to all my friends too.
It appears some of the companies that don’t outright refuse or who do supposedly comply, seem to just change their customer numbers to get around these requests.
Re: Erin’s comment of 15 April: I happen to love Victoria’s Secret, shop/buy from the catalog regularly. BUT, I agree the company innundates you with too many of essentially the same catalog. They can call it the Look Book, Casual Clothes, Sale, whatever… you’ll find mostly the same merchandise in each. Last week I received 6 issues! Most went into the recycling bin without even being opened. Erin is right. VS is by far the worst offender, but if you order from them, how do you stop them? Given my experience with Catalog Choice so far, I hold out little hope that my ceasing commerce with VS would stop the flow of catalogs. After 6 months, only 6 of my original 45 catalogs agreed to take me off their mailing lists. Still, I continue to add catalogs to my choices, and I refuse to give up.
I first signed up to cut down on my catalogs in October 2007. I told my mailman ( optimistically) that I would soon be receiving fewer catalogs…he told me it would never work……
I have listed some 70 catalogs…only 12 have confirmed….it is very, very discouraging to me to see how all these merchants just ignore this…and my mailman was right when he told me that I would still get lots of catalogs….
This is a wonderful concept….but it looks as if Big Business just does not care……….
Seems if someone is sending out a catalog from their garage – I’ll get it – thanks so much for this service – I’ve entered all the catalogs I don’t want (so far 116) plus adding about 13 to the suggestion list and I’m sure will be adding to it in the future – however, I did want to share what I recv’d from Bass Pro Shops customer service – had to call because they refused to take my brother off the list – were very polite and service rep took all the info – well, just today he received a letter (with a Tracks # for future reference) saying in part “…certainly honor your request to be removed from all of our customer communications channels…in addition…your contact information is being removed from following affiliate companies’s lists (which they listed)…patience is requested…may be mailings in process…” – we nearly fainted when we recv’d this – wanted to share with you all – keep up the good work Catalog Choice – we have sent your website to all our friends – btw, we found your website in the latest issue of Domino Magazine (subscription!)in an article about controlling clutter!! – thanks for all your hard work.
This service is a blessing but more needs to be done re this. NORDSTROM needs to be dealt with by customers by a phone call letting them know that their refusal to honor requests via Catalog Choice to stop sending catalogs is B.S. Let them know, people. I’d like to see businesses get a clue: if your product is that great, inform us about it and then leave it to people to choose whether or not to purchase from you or contact you when and if they need what you sell. I hate the whole idea of trying to create a need where one doesn’t exist. If advertising could become more about informing people, the planet might be a lot better off.
Not since living at home in the 80s can I remember days when NO mail appeared. Months ago I registered on your site and went about adding unwanted catalogs as I received them. I also opted out of all credit offers, per your suggestion. Today I received an email from you that made mention of the DMA’s site — I went and registered there too. I LOVE getting bills online, not getting MONSTER catalogs and junk mail!!! Thank you!
Susan, I share your situation with Victorias Secret. Just yesterday, I went on their website & they actually have an option to receive FEWER catalogs. I submitted my name & got a response that from now on, they will send me on 4 per year. Sounds good, you might want to try that.
I am still receivibg cataloques declined in October and November 2007. When I called the catalogue to complain I was informed that my customer # and source codes now are listed as “Catalogue Choice”. Apparently, they are using the Catalogue Choice contacts to create new mailing lists!
Dear SG: I manage merchant outreach for Catalog Choice. You are experiencing what is standard practice in the catalog world. Many mailers want a secondary confirmation regarding your wish to decline a catalog. One of the ways that a cataloger may confirm your intentions is by testing them. They code the catalog differently and see how you respond to it. This may be irritating, but it is a reasonable action from the mailer’s perspective. If you make a purchase, it is unlikely your name will be removed from the mailing list. If you don’t purchase from the catalog, they should remove your name becuase you are indicating to them that you are not a valuable customer. I know this is frustrating, but understand that it is all about the data for catalog mailers. So hang in there and thanks for the feedback.
I was thrilled when I found your web site. I have been trying for years to stop unwanted catalogs. Each time I moved, even to another state, they followed me even though I made no purchases and did not give them my forwarding address. I wish it was illegal for people to sell my name or require that I have to say no to something I never requested in the first place. Things should only come to me if I request them. I would love to see the laws changed so that the only time you could get anything is if you ask for it. It then might stop many of the problems we have in the world from trash to identity theft. But for now, thank you for your efforts.
Still happy to be a member; however, received 11 catalogs today–3 new ones and one that I’ve entered at least twice as a suggested catalog–it’s still not in the choice list.
Frustrated but persistent.