65 Responses to “Only One Purpose”

1. I checked out your list of those merchants who are cooperating with CatalogChoice this morning. A strong point for doing business with the companies that are on this list is that, by showing responsibility for cleaning up their mailing lists, they are also proving that they can be trustworthy if mail order customers decide to purchase from them.

   Prior to CatalogChoice.org I often would not order from companies just because I couldn’t stand the deluge of catalogs from OTHER companies in the months after I placed an order. With CatalogChoice.org I feel like I can now deal with these companies because they are being responsible. Do you use this as a selling point in signing up new merchants?

   Jane Dougall on February 13th, 2008 at 6:27 am

2. My question is this: Our company receives tons of mail order catalogs for former employees and actors. How do I go about removing them?

   Thanks

   Cathi Moore on February 13th, 2008 at 10:46 am

3. I am astounded that some of these catalogs refuse your request. That’s a lot of audacity to make me call up and refuse. They have no right to use my name if I don’t want it used. Many of these catalogs are useless to me because of the sizings…clothes are made for skinny, flatchested midgets and then I have to carry out the trash….and they waste trees. Shame on all of them.

   Sheila Rothman on February 13th, 2008 at 10:51 am

4. Cathi:

   Contact ecologicalmail.org to stop catalogs addressed to former employees.

   Chuck on February 13th, 2008 at 10:56 am

5. Pier 1’s Aggressive Direct Mailing Practices…

   Executive Summary: On November 28, 2007, I put in a request through CatalogChoice.org to stop receiving Pier 1’s catalogs. I visited Catalog Choice’s site on January 25th to find that Pier 1 refused my request. In effect, Pier 1 is refus…

   Avaktavyam on February 14th, 2008 at 6:27 am

6. Since Sept. 2007 I have been contacting catalog companies individually and then when I discovered CatalogChoice.org registering my opt-outs off your web site only to discover that the catalog companies can resell or rerent your name and address over and over to hundreds of other catalog companies, thus adding my name back onto distribution lists…how can this be stopped?

   Jeffrey Weil on February 15th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

7. Jeffrey:

   This is an excerpt from the license that a merchant signs when they obtain their account at Catalog Choice:

   You may use the Service only for your internal business purposes and shall not: (i) use the opt-out list for sales or marketing purposes; (ii) distribute, rent or sell the names and addresses contained in the opt-out list;

   I you have reason to believe that a merchant you opt-ed out of on Catalog Choice is renting your name, please let us know.

   Chuck on February 15th, 2008 at 3:39 pm

8. Not happy- I’ve opted out of over 160 catalogs since Oct. . I’m still receiving 7-8 a day. Most of which are the same as before. Is this really working?

   sandy nicol on February 16th, 2008 at 10:28 am

9. Good afternoon, again

   I wrote about two days ago regarding my frustration with the merchants changing names and account numbers.

   Here’s a new low–today I received a catalog from a CONFIRMED merchant, Plow and Hearth; however, there was a new account number assigned to my name.

   I also received a copy of Wind & Weather today with the same account number. I opted out of the catalog as well and on checking, I was assigned the same original account number as I had had for Plow & Hearth.

   Once again, when will the madness end!!

   Bonnie Murphy

   Bonnie Murphy on February 16th, 2008 at 11:41 am

10. Sandy and Bonnie:

    We are all share your disappointment.

    We have two choices - 1) we can let industry have their way and force every consumer to call their customer support line to stop the mailing of unwanted catalogs. or 2) we can work as a community of almost 600,000 consumers to request that the industry honor the requests through Catalog Choice - the easiest web application for stating your mail preference.

    There is a third choice - you can use one of the other services on the web that does the same thing that we do. Most of these services charge a fee. We felt that this service should be free, that is why we built it.

    Chuck on February 16th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

11. I have been using catalog choice for about a month now. I have not yet seen a slowdown in the catalogs I receive, but I hope to see it very soon. I too am irked when I see “Refused” under the status of certain catalogs. I emailed Garnet Hill and asked them to remove me from their mailing list and further asked that they please honor requests sent via catalogchoice.org. Here is their response to my request:
    “We do not currently accept requests from any third parties at this point due to concerns about your privacy and their ability to truly provide the service they claim.”

    Concerns about my privacy, give me a freaking break. Their “concern” touches me….not.

    Anyone who refuses my request goes to the bottom of my shopping list. Anyone who honors my request will remain on my list of preferred vendors, and only one is on that list so far…Crutchfield. You guys rule!

    Mary on February 19th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

12. Different Mary here. Mary, I hope you wrote Garnet Hill back and told them what you think of their response. They need to hear this.

    I think we should start contacting people at the catalog companies who make decisions… customer service departments don’t set policy.

    I still can’t really figure out what the real reason for merchants balking at removing our names from their mailing lists is. They’ll do it if I give them my information in an email to them… they won’t do it if I give them my information through Catalog Choice. How is the former any more reliable than the latter? If they had concern for our privacy, our names wouldn’t be on mailing lists to start with.

    Mary on February 20th, 2008 at 6:04 am

13. I had the same experience with Garnet Hill. I have ordered many things from them in the past. Now I’ve unsubscribed from their emails as well due to their refusal to honor my opt out request. Why do business with a merchant like that?

    FYI, Title 9 said that they were working with catalogchoice and would begin to honor requests made through the site.

    Kathleen on February 20th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

14. As much as I admire the service you provide and respect your dedication to the environment, I find your choice of verbiage to be not only false, but liabelous. As an employee of one of the companies you have waged war against (and also a member of catalogchoice.org) I have had to deal first hand with the reaction to your choice of wording - particularly the choice of the phrase “REFUSED YOUR REQUEST”. Perhaps you could let members know that not all companies can accept/computerize the poorly organized lists that you forward to companies for removals. Wouldnt it be more fair (not to mention HONEST) to let members know that a certain company has not REFUSED their request for removal, but that their computer systems do not correspond with your computer systems? And how does your statement “In spite of our efforts not to demonize the industry, the Direct Marketing Association continues to send messages to catalog companies that paint Catalog Choice as the devil. The nasty things they say about Catalog Choice make us think that they are worried about the power of your wishes. Instead of working in the best interest of consumers, the actions of the DMA are driving a serious wedge between consumers and catalog companies. We think that’s bad business.” reflect your desire to NOT demonize the industry? Alls one has to do is take a 5 minute look at your website blogs and consider your choice of verbiage (REFUSE to honor your request) and it is clear that YOU are attempting to demonize companies that cant be members of catalogchoice.org (again, because your systems dont correspond with ours) by painting a false picture of their intent to REFUSE mailing list removals. Further, you are clearly trying to demonize the DMA. Can you provide some examples of these horrible things they are saying to about catalogchoice.org? All of this bizarre hatred on this site is BAD BUSINESS in my opinion. I think it would serve you right to be sued for your attempt to financially hurt companies that are not members of catalogchoice.org. I wouldnt be surprised if it happens since you are clearly making false statements and encouraging consumers not to order from companies that dont work with catalogchoice. Whats that called….blacklisting? Is that GOOD business?

    Jenny on February 20th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

15. Jenny:
    Thanks for your feedback. We are not waging war on anybody. We are providing an easy to use system to request that companies no longer send *unwanted* catalogs.

    If there are technical issues with processing our data, please contact our merchant account team at merchantservice@catalogchoice.org.

    Thanks for using our blog to express your opinion. This blog is a place where users can freely express their opinion about related issues and our service.

    We are dedicated to make our service work for consumers and merchants.

    Chuck on February 20th, 2008 at 6:36 pm

16. Jenny,

    I am sorry that you are upset. Yes, unfortunately, we can in fact point to negative things that the DMA has said about Catalog Choice, since you asked. Without ever contacting us, the DMA advised its members to “just say no” to Catalog Choice. In spite of our best efforts to work with the DMA, they continue to advise their members to not work with us. And even while we still hope to work with the DMA and all other parties, we think that the DMA’s negative actions are driving a wedge between catalog companies and its valued customers. We seriously doubt that most catalog companies would have any problems working with Catalog Choice if the DMA had not first advised them to not do so. We are responsive and sincere in our actions. Have you seen our Bravo Merchant page? We have strong working relationships with many companies. We hope that your issues can be resolved so that you can be one of them. We would be more than happy to talk to you in this space or off line in order to resolve your issues. Thanks for taking the time to write.

    Daniel on February 20th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

17. Thank you for the fast reply Chuck. May I ask, though, why do you choose to use the word “Refused”? Dont you think its misleads consumers by suggesting that you attempted to make the request for removal and it was….ahem…REFUSED? How can a request for removal be refused when it was never offered because a particular merchant is not a member? Why dont you say something akin to “SO and SO is not a member of catalogchoice, so unfortunately your request for removal cannot be honored. You can contact SO and SO directly to remove your information from their mailing list at 800-111-2222.” Wouldnt that suffice? Wouldnt that provide the same great service that catalogchoice offers without compromising the integrity of catalogchoice.org by resorting to sleazy business tactics?

    Jenny on February 20th, 2008 at 7:40 pm

18. Jenny,

    When one of our team works to have a catalog company accept opt-out requests on behalf of our users and the company refuses to do so, then that company has, in fact, refused to do just that. We want every company to participate and hope that your company will decide to particpiate as well. We do not, however, find our language to be inflammatory or misleading.

    Daniel on February 20th, 2008 at 7:54 pm

19. Daniel, you dont need to convince me that your mission is true and noble - I believe in the service you provide. I just think you should change your verbiage to reflect the truth and not pit people against merchants that choose not to manage their removals with your service. I believe you could provide the same service with the same devotion without trying to hurt the sales of companies that are not members of catalogchoice. And frankly, I dont think that the DMA saying ‘just say no’ constitutes “nasty” things…it actually sounds like you are trying to paint the DMA as “devils’ by stating that. I dont think that encouraging consumer members to be abusive or rude (and trust me, they are) to employees of companies that are not members of catalogchoice is a good business practice, nor do I think that tactic is necessary for catalogchoice to achieve success in their honorable endeavor.

    Jenny on February 20th, 2008 at 9:30 pm

20. Anyone interested in getting their name effectively off catalog/mailer lists without going through “third party” removal organizations should check out the following link:

    http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm#1

    (you may have to copy/paste it)

    When writing the the DMA and Abacus, you just need to include all variations of your name and address as they appear on the catalogs. I have done DMA, Abacus and optoutprescreen and it has worked wonders! That way you dont have to deal with companies that tell you catalogs have “refused” to take you off the mail list.

    Arijana on February 20th, 2008 at 9:45 pm

21. Jenny, could you please don’t blame Catalog Choice but instead make an option on your company website or phone menu to easy unsubscribe from catalogs? Do you have this option already?

    Or train your staff to study CSV format (definitely not hardest one :-)

    Why people should waste their and your time to stop receiving unwanted stuff?

    Eugene Zelenko on February 20th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

22. Many people dont know that credit bureaus and other data-trading companies such as CheckPoint and Axciom? trade consumer names and addresses, phone numbers, and other common information already deemed public unless they are told to stop. Going to Optoutprescreen.com will effectively tell the credit bureaus that you either want to opt out permanently (or opt out for 5 years). Catalog companies typically associate with either DMA or other companies like Abacus to deal information. Many times going through third-party catalog removals are not as effective because these companies may NOT have all the information needed to process the request and/or many not be on the same sheer scale as other companies that have been established longer. DMA has been around since 1917, whereas Catalog Choice is a really new organization. Also a good option for not recieving “junk” mail such as generically labeled glossy flyers that say “resident” or “Occupant” on them is to post a message on your mail box to the effect of “OCCUPANT AND RESIDENT MAIL NOT ACCEPTED. FLYERS NOT ACCEPTED.” This tells the post office that any mail that does not have your actual name on it will not be accepted at that address.

    ARIJANA on February 20th, 2008 at 11:02 pm

23. It’s great to see catalog merchants like Jenny and Arijana reading and commenting. Arijana, you may not be aware that people actually do know about the options you mentioned, and still choose to use Catalog Choice. If you read the comments in all the blogs, you’ll get a good idea why people are not interested in those other options.

    I think, Jenny, that you are misreading the comments. I can’t remember seeing Chuck or any other Catalog Choice employee exhorting anyone to stop purchasing from merchants who refuse their requests. It’s CC members who are saying that, on our own, as our final attempt to have an effect on the barrage of unwanted and unsolicited mail.

    If a merchant has refused, then the term is accurate. I’ve contacted a number of merchants very politely, so for you to state that consumers are “abusive or rude (and trust me, they are)” is inflammatory and inaccurate. Finally, the nasty things. The DMA president stated that CC is trying to “eliminate catalogs as a marketing medium.” Not so, and in fact, CC has explicitly made the point that they are NOT trying to eliminate catalogs. In my view, misrepresenting what CC is trying to do that way is nasty. If you can offer a way in which “just say no” is a positive response to consumers, I’d love to hear it. This is not a “third-party” removal organization… this is a “first-party” group of consumers. If you call CC a third party, then you need also to call DMA a third party. The DMA only recently changed its opt-out options because of the popularity of the Catalog Choice website, so it’s pretty clear they’ve seen that consumers want more choice. That’s good news for me, a consumer. There’s plenty of room for both merchant associations (the DMA) and consumer associations (CC).

    Mary on February 21st, 2008 at 5:41 am

24. Jenny,

    I’d like to address the issue of “our computer systems don’t correspond.” Quite frankly, that is a weak excuse. Computer systems can be modified, or at least flat files can be exported & imported. That’s what IT departments do every day. The only requirement is that the companies involved have to WANT to make an effort. So if that is really the only problem, I’ts time to get your technical staff to work - they can solve it.

    Dawn on February 22nd, 2008 at 5:25 am

25. If a company who’s name you have put up on your website, does not happen to have hundreds of thousands of dollars at this particular moment to change their entire computer software to meet the requirements of YOUR companys software, don’t you think you would have checked these issues out with companies before boasting that you can take peoples names of that particular catalogs mailing list?!!! Thats what it sounds like the issue is that Jenny seems to be making. Smaller companies may NOT have the money to make a huge software upgrade just to be compatible. It doesnt mean that company still wont politely take someone off their mailing list if they simply pick up the phone. I think you expect a lot without having all the facts.

    ARIJANA on February 22nd, 2008 at 7:02 am

26. Arijana: CSV is text based format (see details in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values)

    I don’t think that it’s necessary to make big software updates if your company doesn’t have money for IT.

    List can be processed manually without handling phone calls and mistakes due misunderstanding/misspelling on phone.

    Eugene Zelenko on February 22nd, 2008 at 8:07 am

27. Jenny and Arijana,

    Indeed, I think you have BOTH been mislead by your own companies!

    If the average home computer user accessing files on the Internet can, for FREE, quickly and easily convert data to a compatible format to display…
    then a for-profit company with an actual DEPARTMENT for Customer Service can dedicate just a little bit of effort and time to process an actual LIST of actual CUSTOMERS with actual requests to change their mailing status in your companies systems the same way….
    right?

    It’s got to be TONS faster than processing each and every one of them while on the phone with the customer, right?

    And it certainly avoids dealing directly with irate customers, right?

    I mean, seriously, this is a no-brainer. If you guys are REALLY small and REALLY don’t know how to do this, ask the office geek or any staffer’s teenager or the guy that helped set up the computers for you- and I am serious about those options.

    And, in my book an important aspect, it prevents MY name and address getting put into yet ANOTHER database that is vulerable to being sold off for MORE unsolicited mailings (every other service mostly).

    Oh, and I am not giving out my CC# to be kept on file with a company not known for it’s respect for individual’s data or for honoring privacy (DMA)!

    SDL on February 22nd, 2008 at 4:44 pm

28. Wow. It sounds like you have figured it all out. Why didnt we think of that? I mean, that nerdy guy that wears the suspenders - clearly the solution to the problem that we were missing. Maybe he can also orchestrate world peace and settle the national debt too? Or perhaps we really should just invite one of the X-Box playing preteens to come and take care of this issue. So easy, but I have to admit it never occurred to me me. I sure feel foolish.

    But back to the imperfect world of reality now…(and I hope you enjoyed the reciprocal saracasm)

    None of this is quite as simple as it seems. And you are seemingly confusing me with people that actually hold power in my company. I am a pee on that answers the phone to feed my kids. Thats it. I can no more have an affect on company policy than I can inscribe my initials on the moon. That is probably why I take issue with the misdirected animosity I have dealt with by misguided people in the recent past. Folks who seem to be under the impression that non member companies are refusing to remove people from their mailing lists. In my humble, ineffectual opinion, people are being mislead into thinking that they are somehow making a difference by jumping on their soapboxes and yelling at customer service people. Sorry - not the case. Thats like beating a puppy because its mother bit the mailman. Or sueing the janitor at Enron for the loss of peoples retirement accounts. I mean, come on - cant you see how ineffective that approach is? It may make people feel good about themselves…as if they are taking a stand or being an environmentalist, but I love how everyone wants to be an environmentalist - as long as its not too difficult, time consuming or tedious. Especially if it can be accomplished with a few clicks of the mouse - I mean, God forbid you may have to sit on hold for a few minutes (EGAD! I had to spend 3 whole minutes removing myself from a mailing list - the nerve! But I deserve a trophy for saving trees!!) Please. Maybe catalogchoice would be better named thelazyenvironmentalist.com. Hey! I like that!

    Now I will admit that I am not the most technologically savvy person around, but our systems are not internet based. They differ vastly from the home pc’s with internet access you refer to. We are part of a network as well, so having nerdy-savior come and make some simple adjustments doesnt work. And of course we would be able to manually enter peoples names and addresses into our system and attempt to prevent them from receiving future mailings, but you know what? Theres a problem with that system, and I think it will prove detrimental to the future of catalogchoice because it will render their services ineffective. This will be proven in the coming months. Heres why: in the multitude of companies I have worked in call centers for, there are a great deal of similarities in the different systems they use. People dont seem to realize just how many variations there can be of a name and address. Lets make an example.

    Jane Doe
    125 W Oak Street
    Geneva, MS 45629

    Jane Doe
    125 W Oak St
    Geneva, MS 45629

    Jane Doe
    125 West Oak Street
    Geneva, MS 45629

    Jane Doe
    125 West Oak St
    Geneva, MS 45629

    Jane Doe
    125 W Oak
    Geneva, MS 45629

    Jane Doe
    125 West Oak
    Geneva, MS 45629

    J. Doe
    125 W Oak Street
    Geneva, MS 45629

    J. Doe
    125 West Oak Street
    Geneva, MS 45629

    J. Doe
    125 W Oak St
    Geneva, MS 45629

    J. Doe
    125 West Oak St
    Geneva, MS 45629

    ALL of these would reach the intended recipient. Getting the horrifying picture yet? And we havent even started wth middle initials yet! Or apartment numbers! I mean, it could say apt 45 or apt # 45 or just #45 with all those variations of the address I have already shown you. The possibilities are literally, nearly infinite. That is why providing your name and address to a company for removal WITHOUT the catalog or account number in front of you will prove about as effective (or affective, I cant keep those straight) as taking your unspayed cat to chastity seminars to prevent pregnancy. Its just not going to work.

    It seems to me that the larger issue is the existence of rental lists in general. This is something that should be legislated against or..something. Instead of yelling at some poor girl answering a phone for a living, try writing a letter to your state rep. Try collaborating to pass legislation. Try ANYTHING that may work, but it will probably require more effort than click-click-click-there-Im-doing my-part-ism.

    Now dont get me wrong here - I truly hope that the advent of catalogchoice truly does result in 7 bzillion effective removals and the saving of umpteen thousand trees. I come from a long line of tree hugging, self- chaining-to-logging-equipment, greenpeaceing earthfirsters. I take issue with wasting natural resources in a multitude of different ways..I get pissed everytime I see a Hummer or an Escalade..I feel disdain for women that use plastic tampon applicators..I have chased people down to berate them for throwing trash out their car window..I recycle diligently. I want everyone to do their part like I try to for a better world for everyone, but I dont think people should be mislead and I dont think that the tactics catalogchoice is using to try to strongarm companies into membership is a fair practice. I know, you know, catalogchoice knows that saying that a request was refused is not the complete truth. Regardless of whether or not a catalogchoice rep called a company to offer membership. Its choice wording to instigate an emotional response that will result in angry people treating entry level pee ons like villains to try to get companies to join up. The mentality of this tactic is reflected all over this site, in the blogs, in the Fahrneys commentary…catalogchoice implores you to buy a pen from Fahrneys because they are “cooperating” AND use it to write to non member companies! The Bravo Merchants page is a prime example…go to these sites and shop to reward them for cooperating with catalogchoice! Transparent much??

    Oh, and Mary (from the posting above)..I truly appreciate that you are polite while making your request for removal, so let me amend my previous statement: Mary is not abusive or rude while making her request to be removed, but 90% of people that mention catalogchoice are. Sorry to generalize there Mary. Please forgive me for being inflammatory and inaccurate?

    Jenn on February 22nd, 2008 at 10:03 pm

29. SDL, Thank you for making yourself look like an idiot, it was rather amusing. You can sit there and say what you said but the fact of the matter is the programs some companies use to process data does NOT have tons of specific formatting options. Its just like one program may offer to save a file to EPS format and you can only use either the SAME program to open that file or certain other programs, but you are limited in choice to what you can buy to be compatible with that file. When catalog choice’s information comes to us, it comes through as a jumbled MESS!! Literally, it is a HUGE software issue they did not bother to check on before throwing company XYZ’s name on their website. No wonder their website says “REFUSED”! We dont have thousands and thousands of dollars to fix this issue that could have been avoided by catalog choice simply checking with XYZ first. Writing to DMA, ABACUS and OptOutPrescreen.com takes very little time, as long as it does to call 6 catalog companies or less. For anyone’s information I simply wrote to DMA with all variations of my name and address and advised them I was NOT paying to remove myself from something I didnt pay to get on in the first place, they needed to permanently remove my name (s) and address (es) from their marketing list. Are any of those foolproof? Not if you order from some catalog and tell them to not rent/share your information and they do it anyways! You’re right back in the mailing list pool then. As soon as that happens, I write to DMA and Abacus again, which I’ve only had to do one other time since I initially did it about a year or so ago. The optoutprescreen thing is permanent if you choose that option. People need to remember that NOTHING is absolutely concrete that you will “never” get another catalog again. It will happen, you just need to be diligent about it and put in slightly more time and effort than a few clicks on the mouse. Perseverence pays off…! Trust me.

    ARIJANA on February 23rd, 2008 at 5:34 am

30. Thanks to all who have been posting their comments on this. It’s valuable to understand the basis from which everyone is coming from. It’s certainly true that a lot of catalogs are mailed to recipients using multiple variations of one’s name, or multiple recipients at a variety of addresses or derivatives of an address.

    Catalog Choice allows a user to enter all of those variations into the system so as to allow opt-outs under any and all of those names and address variants. It is important to use the “customer number” on the back of the catalog, if it appears. This helps the merchant to identify you properly on their list. If a company doesn’t feel that it has the infrastructure to download the data, a simple email to the Catalog Choice customer service department can help to yield a viable solution. No matter what your position may be within that company, it’s certainly within an employee’s ability to offer that as a constructive recommendation to the IT or Marketing department. What could it hurt to try?

    Laura on February 23rd, 2008 at 8:19 am

31. Thank you for this wonderful service. Keep up the good work. Will you ever get to the email industry? Sometimes I don’t even order products from the internet because I have to leave an email address and I know this probably means that I will receive unwanted email notices of sales etc.

    Celine on February 23rd, 2008 at 11:16 am

32. Wow. First time I bothered to look at the blog and it is amazing to me that there are people pathetic enough to troll at catalochoice?!?

    Can they not realize it is obvious that they must be connected to the dma industry in some way? O well, carry on…

    Ward on February 23rd, 2008 at 1:13 pm

33. I am so happy to be able to help our environment by ditching all these unwanted catalogs. I have not read the blogs before butam amazed at the response. One thing I hope people know and if this is redundant my apologies, but if you order ANYTHING online from a company that HAS a catalog you will be right back on the mailing list. I hate the fact that I cant order online to save on paper… and then get deluged once again with catalogs. We had to call Pier One today because they refused to delete us. They DID NOT refuse my husband! I read that you can find out companies that are good with this idea of deleting catalogs. How does one find this list? Keep up the good work and forget what the DMA people think!

    Mary Zavitz on February 23rd, 2008 at 1:41 pm

34. Mary Zavits

    There is this link here that will help you get off mailings if you’re interested.

    http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm#1

    ARIJANA on February 23rd, 2008 at 6:19 pm

35. Chuck, I liked the idea of Catalog Choice until recently when I realized that it is not what you and the Today show say it is! I wasted my time with this site hoping that it would make a difference. Do you even work with the catalog companies? I don’t think you do at all! Even the “Bravo Merchants” opt-out requests I made don’t work. Shame on you for your over hyped false promotion. In your comments above you should mention there are three options not two. The DMA or other sites which actually do what they advertise!

    Donna on February 26th, 2008 at 10:28 am

36. I have followed the discussion here with great interest. Jenny makes some valid points; but after having dealt with most of the catalog companies that “refused” or however you wish to say it, to honor my request, I am left to assume that these companies intend to make it difficult for me to unsubscribe. If they want to say that their computer systems don’t work with catalogchoice.org’s data outputs, fine, I suppose I can buy that. where I have trouble believing her is when she says they agree with the mission here. If that were really true, catalog companies would make it easy for me to remove my name from their lists. I have made this a personal mission, and since doing so, have encountered numerous obstacles. Here are ways catalog companies make it difficult: no mention of how to remove oneself on their website, no option to remove oneself by calling the company. If they really cared to make it easy they would include “catalog opt-out” links on their website (that are easy to find from the main menu), and/or a similar option in their phone menus. My experience has been I have to call the customer service department, wait in the queue, or send a personal email through the “contact us” section of their websites. In many cases I receive no confirmation from the email. In other cases I receive multiple catalogs to the many variations of my name and I have to repeat the request for each one.

    so until they make it easier, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me that they support the mission of catalogchoice.org.

    Mary on February 26th, 2008 at 10:54 am

37. Donna:

    With the exception of the DMA who runs a service that historically charged consumers and to this day requires a credit card and does not work if you are already a customer, all the other groups offering a service like ours do the same thing we do.

    Your disappointment is that the DMA has come out and told merchants to not work with us.

    We are confident that if continue our efforts we can make this will work for everybody. We have a lot of integrity and we have been truthful about what we are doing every step of the way.

    Chuck on February 26th, 2008 at 11:07 am

38. I am so glad to have the beginnings of a way to get unwanted and unsolicited catalogs out of my mailbox! Perhaps if enough of us (if 600 thousand isn’t enough, what is?) keep declining catalogs, the companies that so cavalierly sell our names will discover it’s not such a profitable practice. That’s what will do it –when the discovery is made that it doesn’t pay to buy lists of names ! “Profit is all!” There is so much shopping that can be done on line now that the wastefulness of paper catalogs that are not wanted needs to STOP. I think of all the trees and all the petroleum products that go into these catalogs and just wonder.\

    Marcia on February 26th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

39. You might make the DMA happier and provide a service to consumers as well by offering opt-IN for catalogs as well as opt-out.

    Keith on February 26th, 2008 at 2:02 pm

40. Donna wrote: “…you should mention the…DMA or other sites which actually do what they advertise!”

    In my experience, the DMA does *not* do what they advertise. I got a whole new catalog today from yet another prospecting DMA member, CompanyKids by The Company Store. I don’t have children of my own. I do have nephews and nieces, but I do *not* buy anything for them via direct merchandising precisely because I’d hate to be inundated with random kids’ catalogs. I’ve certainly never ordered from CompanyKids, with whom I do not have a customer number. My name is supposed to be suppressed on their lists via the DMA. Obviously, it’s not.

    I could point to several other examples—that’s just the latest one.

    Tracy Glomski on February 26th, 2008 at 2:48 pm

41. I do not - nor have I ever - worked for a catalog company but I do know something about data management and Jenny is absolutely right about how difficult it is to match users without unique identifiers. I frankly wondered when I first signed up with catalogchoice how this would work, and suspected that it wouldn’t work. Apart from all that, I am beginning to think that this was a great idea, but no one thought through the details, and it is all turning out to be wishful thinking on all our parts. I just received 6 catalogs (1 duplicate in my husband’s name; he hasn’t signed up so can’t blame Eddie Bauer for this second copy).Of the five, I’ve cancelled all but one, and yet they are still arriving by the pound. I am having doubts that this will ever really reduce the number of catalogs. I am now taking the time to e-mail or call companies directly to ask that my name be removed from their list.

    Ellen on February 27th, 2008 at 1:25 pm

42. I’ll start off by saying that I work in the web division of a cataloger (read: small cataloger) that is indicated on this site as having refused to honor your requests to be removed.

    Not true.

    However, we have refused to be a “member” here. The reason is simple.

    Of the list we’ve received, only a tiny, insignificant portion of the persons were even on our mailing list. And of the HUNDREDS of daily emails we get from Catalog Choice to remove subscribers, I’d say less than 5% are on our list. This is a guesstimate however.

    I think we all know what unsolicited emails are called, especially when sent in bulk.

    That we DO monitor very closely, and we honor every emailed or phoned in request to be removed from our email or catalog mailing list. But only if you’re on it in the first place.

    Secondly, how do we know that someone signed up at catalog choice is who they say they are? Hence the third party privacy comment way up near the top of this page. Granted, members here have willingly provided that info, but in part, I wonder if they’ll find it to be worth it.

    HOWEVER. As a result of seeing what happens when you let ANY third party get involved with anything, we will be adding a form on our site that allows you to unsubscribe from our catalog without calling us. At the same time, if you don;t use a customer number from a catalog, it might not work.

    We’ll do our best.

    Believe me, with the cost of postage, paper, and other considerations, we DON’T want to send our catalogs to people that don’t want them. The return on that investment is zero. And that doesn’t play well when you are explaining your budget to the CEO.

    River on February 27th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

43. People of Catalog Choice:

    It seems to me your model is not working for me and many others. I have an idea

    How about instead of sending a list to vendors that they do not want (for what River points out may be good reasons) or cannot use due to technical reasons, you provide users with phone numbers to get off the lists or links to the web sites where they can without using the inflammatory , and as River pointed out, misleading “REFUSED” level.

    Simply put, your model is not working.

    So, instead of blaming others, why not fix what you can control and use your website to inform people how to get off of lists instead of encouraging them to torment minimum wage workers with irate calls.

    Take responsibility, Catalog Choice. Stop blaming others for the problems you are having implementing a flawed business model that you created.

    Stop beating up on others, admit you may have made some mistakes in implementing what seemed like a good idea and use your web site to provide solutions.

    Hey, if you say “the buck stops here” the catalogs may too!

    Bob on February 27th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

44. I am both irate & dumbfounded at the obstinacy of these companies who refuse to honor our wishes, play dumb by not confirming our accounts while assigning us additional account numbers with the identical information, and sell our names to even more catalog issuers. They’re fighting a losing battle. Can you see any of these companies, or the DMA, for that matter, getting on GMA & The Today Show to trumpet their cause during this green-friendly era? Environmental consciousness is not a fad, it’s here to stay, at least for the life (and death) of these businesses.

    LMcC on February 27th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

45. Bob,

    Catalog Choice has signed up over 600,000 people in just a few months. We are a nonprofit group with good intentions. We diligently try to contact companies on behalf of people who do not want to receive certain catalogs. If a company refuses to believe us for some reason, and then refuses to accept an opt-out on behalf of someone, we do not think that using the word “refused” is misleading.

    Catalog Choice was created in part because of just how hard it is to stop receiving unwanted catalogs. Today I wanted to opt out of three catalogs. In each case I checked the catalog web site to see if there was a link or some easy opt out mechanism. And, in fact, there was not. (Full disclosure: I work with Catalog Choice)

    In the post above, River, who works with a catalog company, said that only a small percentage of the names they received are on his/her list. While they might not be customers, they are probably prospects. And those prospects don’t want those catalogs either. And this should be a cost savings, as the next time River rents a list he/she can explicitly ask that those people are not prospected to – saving a lot of money.

    I’m glad River is going to add an easy way to opt out for consumers. Thanks, River!!

    But Bob, our service is working. Over 150 catalog companies are already teaming with Catalog Choice and we plan to have hundreds more. We are not going away. I’m really sorry you are so angry. We are well-meaning people and are pretty darn reasonable. If you contact us to discuss your issues, we will listen really hard.

    The comments that our users write here are not ours, just like your comments are not ours, obviously. But doesn’t it seem like there are lots of people who want there to be another way to stop getting unwanted catalogs? Catalog Choice may be that way. Free, easy, nonprofit.

    We will continue to refine our service in order to make it better for consumers and for catalog companies. Bob, we would be happy to work with you, too.

    Lastly, we are not blaming others, as you state. But we are a service and we intend to fulfill our mission. We believe people deserve a choice. We believe in Catalog Choice.

    Daniel on February 27th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

46. Wow, I don’t usually get so worked up over stuff like this, but you’re being so presumptuous I must respond. No, I am not frustrated with the DMA for telling catalog companies to say no to you. That is the point of why I am frustrated with this “service” in the first place. You obviously did not do any groundwork before attracting all these users to your website. You lied. Yes, Chuck, you lied by saying this service would “eliminate unwanted catalogs I receive”.

    Now you are using the threat of hundreds of thousands of users to “pressure” retailers to to cooperate with your system.It seems like an organization built on deception and confrontation. How is this acting with integrity? How far will you go to keep your misinformed donors placated? And how come there is no mailing address on your site? How come I cannot email you directly with my complaints/recommendations? Will you please post a mailing address here?

    Donna on February 28th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

47. Donna:

    A link to the organizations running this project is in the About Us section. You can email us at team(at)catalogchoice.org. If you want to send us mail, you can send it to:

    Ecology Center · 2530 San Pablo Avenue, Berkeley, CA 94702

    We leave our blog open to comments so that the dialog about unwanted mail can occur here. We appreciate the array of opinions that are expressed on our blog. However, it is not appropriate to make personal attacks in this forum.

    I am sorry that you are frustrated with the service. We have made it easy for merchants to obtain and process the opt-out requests. Over 150 merchants are honoring the requests and new ones are signing up everyday. Since there is no legislation that requires a merchant to honor a mail opt-out requests. We rely on their good faith to honor the customers request.

    We do not believe that a legislative approach is the best method to manage unwanted mail. We will continue to work with the merchants to improve the service.

    Chuck on February 28th, 2008 at 4:55 pm

48. Donna:

    If you’re interested, see my post from way above for the privacyrights.org link. That will help you out. You do NOT have to pay the DMA/direct marketing association, simply tell them you are NOT paying them and request to be permanently removed from their mail list. Just be sure to write down all the different variations of your name and address as they appear on the catalogs, the same with emailing Abacus. The DMA tries to make you pay, but ultimately they can’t, it’s your information and if you don’t want it handed out to everyone and their dogs, they have to take you off their mailing list whether you pay or not. I posted a few bits of info on here if you scan the list. Let me know what you think!

    ARIJANA on February 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm

49. Donna, I just wanted to respond to a few of the allegations that you’ve made.

    One: We worked very hard before launching this site and have continued to work hard to engage merchants and the mailing industry. We now have 161 merchants who have confirmed their participation in Catalog Choice, and that number grows daily.

    Two: Our members have been very active - that’s true. However, the blog posts here and the calls to merchant service centers (what you called “the pressure”) are completely in the member’s hands. We appreciate and welcome any assistance our members can give in the effort to persuade merchants that consumer choices do matter.

    We very much want to work collaboratively with merchants and will continue to reach out to all of them. We truly feel it is in their best interest to honor and respect consumer’s choices - and many of them do want to do that. We also believe that it will help to reduce merchant expenses (and increase their return on investment) by not mailing catalogs to people who really don’t want to receive them. And, ultimately, it will save natural resources.

    Certainly, explore all avenues open to you to opt-out of mail that you don’t want to receive. That’s your choice - and what a great thing it is that we all DO have choices.

    Laura on February 29th, 2008 at 6:09 am

50. As I said 2 days ago, this is looking more and more like good intentions and wishful thinking…but that’s about all. I just received five catalogs. I’d opted out of three. One of those three confirmed. And guess what? New customer number. I really think the only way to get off these lists is to contact the catalog directly…and I’m not even sure that will work. But this (catalogchoice.org) doesn’t seem to be working. Thanks, guys. I really do appreciate the effort, and I hope it eventually does work, but for now…it seems like I’m just wasting my time using your service.

    Ellen on February 29th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

51. Here’s the REAL way to get off the mailing lists.

    http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs4-junk.htm#1

    ARIJANA on February 29th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

52. Wow, from reading this, it seems like Catalog Choice doesnt work hardly at all compared to other sites I’ve seen. Someone else posted the Privacyrights.org website. I too wrote to DMA and did not pay them. I followed the directions for the Privacy Rights website and I do not get anymore catalogs. You just have to keep up with it if you order from a catalog after you wrote to DMA and stuff because all it takes is one catalog company not to listen when you say you dont want your information shared and then you’re right back in the mailing pool. The cost of a couple stamps paid off for me.

    Sherry on February 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pm

53. The customer number on back of magazines is often hard to decipher as which one is the real number. There are often multiple numbers that could be the customer number.(For example, on the back of the JC Penney magazine, there are about six numbers in order of decreasing probability, that they are the numbers we should be sending Catalog Choice.) Magazines or Catalog Choice need to make this number more transparent so we can help the process move more smoothly.

    Tom Meyer on March 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pm

54. I think the concept and goal of this website is fantastic and noble, but I find that I’m actually receiving more catalogs than I did before I signed up and from new merchants that I’ve never heard of and certainly never shopped with. Is this happening to anyone else? Is this because the merchants that I’m opting out with are reselling my contact info now that they know they have accurate info?

    gene on March 4th, 2008 at 6:51 pm

55. I have yet to see my catalogs slow down, but it is still early in the game. I am seeing an increase–it seems as thought if I opt to refuse the one they regularly send me, they will put me on another list –these companies have many branches –so i have received catalogs for cheaper merchandise, and more expensive merchandise.

    Barb Butzow on March 5th, 2008 at 9:21 am

56. FWIW - I have been writing to companies directly now. Sometimes you have to hunt through the customer service section and write an actual message. Some actually have specific forms to get yourself removed from the mailing list (I hope this is a sign that they are serious about it and will take you off and keep you off! - one of these is Ross Simons - I get tons of catalogs from them and I don’t buy jewelry!). But two were catalogs that had confirmed my removal request here on catalogchoice.org. Another was one I had requested both here AND directly and both times they told me I wasn’t even on their list and that I must have received a “sample catalog.” Garbage. I’ve been receiving their catalog for years. I told them that the first time they came up with this lame answer. It’s becoming sadly apparent to me that it may not be possible to get off these lists, period. This is becoming a frustrating, time-consuming effort and I hope it doesn’t turn into a waste of time.

    Ellen

    Ellen on March 5th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

57. I, too, have received more catalogs than before from a couple merchants who have refused or not confirmed my request. The new catalogs appear to be from their ’sister’ companies. I refuse to give up & I refuse to be discouraged. This is a worthy war, and I consider receiving these additional catalogs a request to engage. Keep at it & don’t give up. It will be worth it in the end. Saving our land, air, and water for our children & grandchildren is nothing short of noble. Indeed, how will one feel about oneself when one realizes one didn’t fight to save the lives those who come behind us? If that sounds melodramatic, what sort of lives will our children have if they can’t breathe clean air, can’t enjoy land & all its natural beauty, and have no healthy water to drink, let alone worthy land with which to grow food? These problems plague us now, but we’ve become accustomed to them. They will worsen if we don’t put the brakes on the thoughtless damage we cause, both passively & actively. The catalog industry is well-rooted and seems to require significant effort to understand how we feel about their treatment of us and to act appropriately. That’s fine. In the words of Og Mandino, I will persist until I succeed.

    LMcC on March 6th, 2008 at 11:05 am

58. It’s helpful to get other perspectives and I appreciate what the DMA folks are saying - up to a point. At my old job, my phone number was very similar to the DMA’s and I would get all kinds of wrong numbers - people would yell at me that I was the root of all evil, allowing their names to be given out, etc. I actually found myself defending the DMA and very politely would explain to these people that they (the DMA) can indeed help them get off the lists - and I would give them the correct number to call.

    However, the bottom line is that the “system” makes it very difficult to opt out and if this website can even help just a bit - then great! And if the DMA and the more resistant catalog companies could help “just a bit too” then what a difference that could make!

    Just as carrying around disposable bottled water is quite out of style now - so too will be wasting paper and other resources. Good luck to catalogchoice.org.

    LHS on March 6th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

59. Thanks, LHS, for your comments. You’ve made a really important and valuable point - many of the systems out there are designed to help people to get off of unwanted mailing lists on a voluntary basis. If we all try a little harder, we can succeed and make this work to our mutual benefit - Merchants, Trade Associations, Independent Websites, and Consumers. And the big winner will be the environment. Thanks for your perspective.

    Laura on March 7th, 2008 at 5:56 am

60. I wish companies would do three things:
    1.) Make any cust# or id# clear and easy to find, well-labeled.
    2.) Have a catalog opt-out checkbox on every web order form and every paper order form. And respect this.
    3.) Have a “do not share my name” checkbox on every web order form and every paper order form. (Better yet, make it an opt-in if people wish to receive mailings from related companies.)

    Some merchants already do this. We should thank them for this responsible approach, and reward them with our business. Those who don’t, we should keep telling them we want these options, and we want them respected.

    The alternative is some kind of privacy legislation…allowing me the right to say where my name goes. I don’t think we want that, it would be costly, ugly and messy and would probably impair business. Why don’t merchants get on board now and show that they care about our wishes, that will solve the problem for the most part. If they did this Catalog Choice would not even be necessary.

    sillia on March 7th, 2008 at 8:49 am

61. Sillia, good point about the privacy legislation. The National Do Not Call list has helped the unwanted phone calls TREMENDOUSLY. And you can take action if companies don’t honor your request. I suppose something similar can and will be done for catalogs. But I agree that merchants should get on board now.

    A last comment/question on all the different versions of a name that can appear on a label - if the computer-generated list doesn’t match somebody’s name in a catalog’s database (eg. Doe on W Oak St vs. J. Doe on West Oak Street), then why can’t they find it manually? They could find “Doe” on “125 West Oak Street” and cancel all related mailings. I understand this is manual, but wouldn’t it take less time than my calling their customer service deptartment and doing it that way? Is the problem that they are receiving too many manual requests at once?

    LHS on March 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

62. I remember reading a blog from some vendor saying that people are declining catalogs that are not in any system, as if Catalog choice participants are merely doing this for the good of their health - randomly declining catalogs that they IMAGINE they receive.

    Well I contacted one HARTFORD YORK today - not on Catalog Choice’s list (yet) - men’s hats - remind me of Frank Sinatra. NO interest to me whatsoever. Thought I’d try and stop any more of them coming…..

    Did I have a customer number?
    Nope.
    “Well you’re not in our system, so I can’t stop something that’s not in our system.”

    “You only got a catalog because you bought something from a another catalog and they sold your name.”

    This we know…..

    “I can put your name into the system and then add don’t sell to it.”

    I don’t think so…..

    “Otherwise there’s nothing we can do. You may get more catalogs from us..if you buy from other catalogs”

    I guess it’s ALL MY FAULT.

    Abby on March 8th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

63. Catalog companies should be MANDATED to give you a way to opt out of their mailing list. A self-addressed, stamped postcard with your customer number should be included in each catalog, allowing you to check a box saying “Opt Out”. Websites should be required to have an place to contact the company with a simple form to fill out to decline their mailings. I think this would go a long way toward eliminating unwanted mail and relieving all the frustration out there. If these companies truly cared they would have these options clearly posted. I too have opted out of catalogs here months ago and am still receiving many of them. I shouldn’t have to waste my time phoning and emailing companies that invade my mailbox against my wishes. In fact, I have called companies in the past, spoke to the customer service department and asked to be removed from mailing lists only to continue to receive catalogs.

    Nancy on March 8th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

64. I’ve been using your site since 11/07. Not much improvement. I have repeatedly opted-out on the same catlgs. over & over. I was hoping this would be the answer to unwanted catlgs. But, I don’t think it’s working.

    Violet on March 10th, 2008 at 4:32 pm

65. I read through all the comments on this blog and nobody asked Jenny what catalog company she worked for. I’d like to know. Maybe they’re on ‘my choice’ list.

    Marilynn on March 10th, 2008 at 10:16 pm