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The new kid in school is making friends fast

Hi! I’m Paul, one of Catalog Choice’s six Merchant Account Managers. My job is to convince catalog companies to accept your opt out requests – not a task for the faint-of-heart!

Catalog companies are a bit like high school students— and Catalog Choice is the new kid at school. So, the companies are gossiping, and trying to find out how to treat the new kid who’s trying to make a lot of new friends.

Each day at the office feels a bit like starting a new school; you don’t know if a company will like you or if they will try to beat you up and take your lunch money. You never know until you actually get someone on the phone—which often requires some creative tactics and lots of patience.

Today, after doing some research, I found the name of the VP of Marketing of a smaller catalog retailer. Using the company’s convenient “Dial By Name” directory, I was able to quickly get “Steve” on the phone. Steve hadn’t heard of our service but was very interested – and even complimented our “simple, well designed, easy to use” webpage. He understood how our service will save his company money and resources. Steve will be creating an account to process your opt out requests.

This is the best-case scenario. Now, a look at the worst:

Yesterday, after having a tough time getting a hold of anyone, I finally got on the phone with James, Director of Public Relations for a major catalog company (which prides itself on supporting “conservation”). The first call lasted 30 seconds. I told him who I was, where I was calling from, and he *literally* said “I’ve heard of your service, and I’m not interested,” and simply hung up.

Since I don’t like taking no for an answer, I called back: “Hey James, this is Paul - did we get cut off?” and he responded “No, I’m just not interested.”

“So, what do I tell the 25,000 people who have expressed their mailing preferences using our site, James?”

“Tell them they can call us directly.”

“Are you saying you want 25,000 phone calls into your call center?”

“I’m saying I’m not interested” (hangs up phone).

These two examples represent both ends of a wide spectrum: some merchants are willing to work with us after a little convincing; others are more diplomatic in explaining why they don’t want to honor your opt out requests; and some simply don’t pick up the phone when I call them – day after day, week after week.

So, what does this mean for the 400,000 individuals who are using our site to opt out of more than five million catalogs? Is the new kid going to get beat up by the big boys and have to hide in the library every day at lunch?

Not at all. There’s a new kid in school – and we’re making friends fast, whether the popular kids like it or not. We are a powerful team of six merchant account managers working hard to fulfill the opt out requests of a community of people that has grown to nearly 400,000 strong – and we are not taking no for an answer.

This entry was posted on Friday, January 18th, 2008 at 6:46 pm and is filed under Catalog Choice, Fulfillment. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

14 Responses to “The new kid in school is making friends fast”

  1. Re: companies saying “no” to Catalog Choice,

    I just emailed a note to Crutchfield explaining that my not wanting their catalog doesn’t mean I’m no longer a customer… just that their web site is my first stop for that sort of product and their catalog is nearly useless for getting the information I need.

    Perhaps if you added a few “reason” codes for us to select during the opt-out selection, it would be information the catalog marketers would be less inclined to say “no” to receiving. For example, knowing that a customer will “purchase online only” might help assure marketing that these opt-outs aren’t pure bad news. On the other hand, “Never requested, never purchased” could be a clue that their co-op marketing isn’t hitting the right targets. Then Catalog Choice could be offering them information of value that would perhaps make them less inclined to listed to the DMA’s “just say no.”

    Dave Brown on January 18th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
  2. Dave:

    Great idea. Look for this new feature soon. Each time you opt-out of the catalog mailing on our site we will ask you to identify the primary reason you are opting-out. Here are the choices we are considering. Let us know if there should be others:

    o Duplicate mailing
    o No interest in products
    o Prefer shopping online for these products
    o Addressed to person not at residence
    o Other _________________

    Chuck on January 19th, 2008 at 8:41 am
  3. Gidday,
    You have to realise that direct mail companies are in business to make money and that their mailing lists are really “Prospects” in sales terms. So you are effectively asking them to remove 25,000 sales prospects off their marketing list. They are not environmentalists, they are direct marketing businesses. Not only do they use their mailing lists to sell product to consumers but they also sell and rent them to other marketers.
    Margot

    Margot on January 19th, 2008 at 11:34 am
  4. Margot,

    If 25,000 people came to this website and took the time out of their life to mark down that they don’t want catalog X, then that’s a pretty clear indication to me that these people are NOT good sales prospects.

    Why should a catalog business pay good money to follow bad prospects? Sounds like a money-losing proposition.

    Hey, here’s a good idea. Let’s run some statistics. Some catalog can look at the sales conversion rate for the X thousand people who ask to be removed via CatalogChoice.

    I’ll be the rate is extremely low, particularly if the site implements the choices feature described above.

    If I’m not interested in their catalog, they’re just throwing money (and paper, ink, energy, etc.) away.

    Geoff on January 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
  5. Chuck, glad you liked the idea. But before you implement it, I would suggest that you ask several catalog retailers with whom you’ve had good conversations — marketers who “get it” — and ask them what they’d like to know about our reasons. Asking us to pick the responses might not get something useful for the mailers. (We can mark our reasons down as notes if we really want to.)

    Dave Brown on January 19th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
  6. Gidday Geoff,
    I understand your frustration but these companies ARE in the business of statistics. If they remove 25,000 prospects from their mailing list that might equate to 1-5% of their list or more. For every catalog they send out they get a Return on Investment. They don’t look at the individuals, it’s a bulk business.
    You want statistics? Take a look at this blog by Kevin Hillstrom and it will give you some insight into the business: http://www.minethatdata.blogspot.com, Kevin used to work in the industry.
    I co-own a business called stopthejunkmail.com and we have been helping consumers since 2001 to do the same as catalogchoice.org so I am totally on the side of the consumer. I agree with you, we shouldn’t have to get catalogs if we don’t shop from them, what’s the point but these companies rely on the 6th or 7th time they mail it out, you might buy something, you may change your mind, life changes. That is why 3rd parties like ourselves are doing our best to help consumers.
    I am only trying to point out what we are up against and why it is a difficult task to convince the catalogers to accept opt outs in bulk.
    Margot

    Margot on January 19th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
  7. I think will be good idea to introduce merchants rating based on their degree of cooperation. Simplest criteria is “cooperate/not cooperate”, more complex can include frequency of opt-out list downloads, number of “still receiving flags”, etc.

    Rating could be displayed withing merchant name and link and also in form of “best X/worst Y” lists.

    As result members of Catalog Choice community will be able to make well informed choices.

    Eugene Zelenko on January 19th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
  8. I have been a customer of The Potpourri Group for many years. As a result of your recent posting, I e-mailed them. Citing your posting, I asked that they reconsider their decision or remove my name from all of their lists as I would not do business with a company that takes their corporate stewardship so lightly. Not a surprise that I have not received a reply, but you can bet that all my needlecraft friends will know not to do businss with The Stitchery (one of their companies).

    I vote for Eugene’s suggestions. There is very little that can’t be purchased at more then one place, and I would prefer to support those merchants that support this cause.

    Mrs. Eck on January 20th, 2008 at 9:23 am
  9. I found this site in November and am up to 55 catalogs. I was VERY disturbed when I heard the Direct Marketing Association (www.the-dma.org) was advising companies to “just say no”. So…I decided to do my part to help get this site off it’s feet (besides telling my friends about the site). I am slowly emailing or calling each company that I am a member of catalogchoice.org and am very disturbed that some merchants are ignoring the requests of hundreds of thousands of people. I ALWAYS make sure I am friendly and let them know if I am customer and plan on staying one and that I just never look at any paper catalogs. Then I ask them to remove me from their lists and to take me off their rent/sell/share lists with ALL partners. My thought is if they get hundreds of thousands of emails (hey, I can dream can’t I?), maybe they will know that people want OFF.

    By the way…how long should I wait until I notify Catalog Choice that I am still receiving? I’m thinking three months since I joined right around the holidays?

    I sure hope all this works. I really am tired of all this mail…

    Connie on January 20th, 2008 at 11:26 am
  10. Dave, great idea to ask catalog merchants what information would be really useful for them to receive. Our research shows that knowing what customers really want and what they think is terribly important to merchants as they evaluate their business and the “channels” they use to communicate with them about their products and services. Thanks for the suggestion!

    Laura Hickey on January 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
  11. I suspect that the companies who have difficulty reducing their catalog lists are not cognizant of the pull of online shopping. It’s much easier to point and click, shipping is the same, and one saves the cost of stamps, envelopes, and, most important, time. There’s also an interactive element which snail mail lacks. Telephoning? Long waits for an ‘associate’ to pick up and record your wishes. Nope, dear merchants, we’ve deserted the malls in large numbers and now we’ve found a handier way to shop. We still use your products but now we order online. By the way, clean up your websites to make it easier for us to participate, huh? Thanks.

    Jacquie Betz on January 25th, 2008 at 7:59 am
  12. Kudos for all the publicity this site is getting. I noticed you didn’t give the name of the company who flat out refused to even think about using your services. Not to mention being rude and very unproffesional. I know this is a negative way of doing things, but have you thought of shaming them into it? Make a list of the largest know companies for the next time you get attention and a interview with any media. Then mention these names in that interview. Also making a list of these companies on this web site might be help too. I know more work for you. But if you weren’t allowed on the interview to name names, you could always mention they listed at Catalog Choice.com. LOL, that might up the traffice and participation for the site too. Many people will go to the site just to see who are the bad guys. And just like the companies, the more visitors the higher your return of investment!

    roberta copeland on January 31st, 2008 at 8:08 am
  13. What can we do to encourage retailers to work with Catalog Choice? I’ve just had a frustrating experience with White Flower Farm, whom I have never asked to send me a catalog, wherein they said that they have no relationship with Catalog Choice and so want me to send them an e-mail telling them that I don’t want their catalog.

    Would it help if many people were to write telling them that they wish they’d participate with Catalog Choice?

    Lisa Pedicini on July 8th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
  14. Hi Lisa:
    It will definitely help if you ask them to activate their Catalog Choice account. The more consumer encouragement, the better.

    Thanks

    Chuck on July 8th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
 

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